ALTDEVS PLUS EXTENDED DOWNWIND LEG ON VISUAL APCH PUTS ACR MLG CREW INTO AN FLC ATC REVIEW THAT IMPLIES AN ERRONEOUS PENETRATION OF AIRSPACE. AIRSPACE NOT IDENTED. TCASII RA'S WERE THE INSTIGATORS OF THE INCIDENT.

Date: 1993-01 · Aircraft: Medium Large Transport; Low Wing; 2 Turbojet Eng

Anomalies: conflict-airborne-conflict|deviation-altitude-excursion-from-assigned-altitude|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-far|other-airspace-violation-entry-or-exit|other-unspecified

Synopsis

ALTDEVS PLUS EXTENDED DOWNWIND LEG ON VISUAL APCH PUTS ACR MLG CREW INTO AN FLC ATC REVIEW THAT IMPLIES AN ERRONEOUS PENETRATION OF AIRSPACE. AIRSPACE NOT IDENTED. TCASII RA'S WERE THE INSTIGATORS OF THE INCIDENT.

Narrative

WHILE ON RADAR VECTORS TO A DOWNWIND FOR LNDG ON RWY 12 WE GOT 2 TCASII RA'S WHICH RESULTED IN EVASIVE TCASII COMMANDS. THE FIRST WAS ON DOWNWIND WHILE STARTING A DSCNT. THIS COMMAND WAS TO CLB TO AVOID TFC THAT WE DID NOT ORIGINALLY SEE. EVENTUALLY WE SAW THIS TFC. THE SECOND RA WAS ENCOUNTERED A SHORT TIME LATER AS WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO DSND AND TURN BASE LEG. ONCE AGAIN TCASII COMMANDED ANOTHER CLB; WITH NO TFC IN VIEW. EVENTUALLY WE SAW THIS ACFT OFF OUR FRONT R. AS WE ONCE AGAIN ATTEMPTED A R BASE TURN COAST APCH CTL HANDED US OFF TO LGB TWR. LGB TWR ADVISED US OF NUMEROUS TARGETS INCLUDING THE #2 RA TFC WHO STILL CONTINUED TO BE A FACTOR TO US. THEY ALSO ASKED US TO MAINTAIN A SPECIFIED ALT TO AVOID THIS ACFT. THESE 2 RA'S AND 1 UNMENTIONED TA RESULTED IN: CLB OR MAINTAINING ALT AND EXTENDING DOWNWIND LEG. WE EVENTUALLY TURNED A 4-5 MI FINAL/BASE. AFTER LNDG IN OPS; MR X FROM COAST APCH CTL CALLED ME AND WAS CURIOUS ABOUT OUR RA'S AND OUR VISUAL APCH. I ASKED IF THERE WAS A PROB AND HE SAID HE MAY HAVE TO FILE AN AIRSPACE VIOLATION. I TOLD HIM OF OUR COMBAT MISSION WE JUST GOT THROUGH WITH. HE SAID THIS HAD HAPPENED IN THE PAST WHERE RA'S HAD CAUSED PROBS WITH AIRSPACE. NOT ONCE WERE WE EVER ADVISED BY COAST APCH OR LGB TWR OF ANY AIRSPACE PROBS OR LIMITATIONS UNTIL WE WERE IN OUR OPS AREA. IF NO RA'S WERE EVER RECEIVED I WOULD NOT SEE A PROB WITH TURNING A 5 MI FINAL ON A VISUAL APCH. AIRSPACE AROUND LGB IS SIMPLY DANGEROUS. THIS CIRCLING PROC AT LGB IN GOOD WX IS DANGEROUS. IT TAKES YOU OVER THE QUEEN MARY AND DOWNTOWN LGB. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT AN AIRSPACE VIOLATION MEANS TO ME. IT MAY BE SOMETHING INTERNAL FOR ATC?

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.