A PA28-236 PLT IS CONFUSED BY THE N90 APCH CTLR'S PHRASEOLOGY IN ENTERING THE HOLDING PATTERN W OF CMK; NY.

Date: 1999-07 · Aircraft: PA-28R Cherokee Arrow All Series · Phase: descent

Anomalies: deviation-track-heading-all-types|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance

Synopsis

A PA28-236 PLT IS CONFUSED BY THE N90 APCH CTLR'S PHRASEOLOGY IN ENTERING THE HOLDING PATTERN W OF CMK; NY.

Narrative

INSTRUCTED TO HOLD. HOLDING INSTRUCTIONS: 'HOLD W OF CMK; 4000 FT; CMK 270 DEG RADIAL; 1.8 DME; 8 MI LEGS; PROCEED DIRECT CMK.' I PROCEEDED DIRECT CMK (HDG 090 DEGS; ESSENTIALLY FLYING EBOUND ON 270 DEG RADIAL CMK). PUZZLED OVER CLRNC; I QUERIED CTLR. HE REPLIED 'I NEED TO KEEP YOU A LITTLE W OF CMK.' HE THEN ISSUED ME A R 230 DEG TURN AND ASKED ME TO TELL HIM WHEN I WAS ESTABLISHED ON THE 270 DEG RADIAL OUTBOUND. STILL CONFUSED; I EXECUTED TURN; ESTABLISHED ON RADIAL AND INFORMED ATC. I THEN FLEW OUT TO 9.6 DME (1.8 + 8 MI LEG) AND TURNED R. FLEW BACK TO 1.8 DME. TURNED R TO INTERCEPT 270 DEG RADIAL OUTBOUND. ATC CALLED AND ASKED WHAT I WAS DOING. I REPLIED ORBITING AS REQUESTED BTWN 1.8 AND 9.6. HE SAID HE MEANT 18! I THEN ACKNOWLEDGED 18 DME. FLEW TO DME 18 THEN CONTINUED TO DME 26 (18 + 8) ON THE 270 DEG RADIAL. ATC AGAIN QUESTIONED ME. I SAID I WAS PROCEEDING AS REQUESTED 18-26 MI DME (IE; 8 MI LEGS). HE SAID NO; HE WANTED ME TO HOLD BTWN 10-18 DME. I THEN HELD BTWN 10-18 DME. NO FURTHER PROB. THE PROB HERE IS; I BELIEVE; INCORRECT ATC PHRASING. THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN: 'HOLD E OF THE 18 DME FIX ON THE CMK 270 DEG RADIAL 4000 FT; R TURNS; 8 MI LEGS.' THE CTLR WAS EXTREMELY HELPFUL AND CONSIDERATE AND WE WORKED TOGETHER TO PUT THE ACFT WHERE HE WANTED IT. BUT PERHAPS THEIR HELPFULNESS (IE; GIVING ME THE INTERCEPTING TURN) WAS PART OF THE PROB. I RARELY HOLD AT NONPUBLISHED INTXNS AND I'LL BET HE RARELY ISSUES SUCH HOLDS.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.