WDB FLC PASSED RWY HOLD SHORT LINE DURING TAXI OUT AT CYYZ DUE TO NOT EXPECTING THE LINE TO BE BACK SO FAR ON THE TXWY AND NIGHT LIGHTING CONDITIONS.

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DURING TAXI OUT; TOLD BY ATC GND TO 'TAXI VIA TXWY J; CROSS RWY 15R/L; HOLD SHORT OF RWY 23.' WE CONTINUED TO TAXI AND STOPPED SHORT OF RWY 23. BOTH THE FO AND I REMARKED THAT WE COULDN'T SEE A HOLD SHORT LINE. I STOPPED AT WHAT SEEMED A REASONABLE DISTANCE FROM THE EDGE OF THE RWY. AFTER A FEW MINS; ATC ASKED US IF WE WERE AWARE THAT THE HOLD SHORT LINE WAS BEHIND US. WE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE HAD NOT SEEN THE LINE. WE ASKED IF ATC WANTED US TO MOVE. THEY RESPONDED 'NO' AND WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF 1 MIN LATER. 2 DAYS LATER; OPERATING THE SAME FLT WITH THE SAME TAXI INSTRUCTIONS; WE PAID PARTICULAR ATTN TO FINDING THE HOLD SHORT LINE. SHORTLY AFTER PASSING TXWY B WHILE ON TXWY J; WE NOTICED THE SIGN SHOWING RWY 23 AHEAD. IT WAS AT THAT SPOT WE SAW THE HOLD SHORT LINE (APPROX 1000 FT) A CONSIDERABLE DISTANCE FROM THE RWY. AT NIGHT; THE HOLD SHORT MARKINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO SEE. ALSO; THE COMMERCIAL CHART DOES NOT DEPICT WHERE THE HOLD SHORT LINE IS. MOST ARPTS HAVE THE HOLD SHORT LINE CLOSE TO THE RWY EDGE; AND BRIGHTLY MARKED. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT REFLECTIVE PAINT OR A HOLD SHORT SIGN WOULD PREVENT SUCH AN INCIDENT IN THE FUTURE. BOTH THE FO AND I ARE VERY EXPERIENCED WITH MIL BACKGNDS. IF THIS COULD HAPPEN TO US; CERTAINLY IT CAN HAPPEN TO OTHERS.