2023-04 · NASA ASRS report 1995544
Light Transport aircraft flight crew reported ATC told them they had to maintain 240 knots even though they were flying below NYC Class B Airspace.
While descending in NY airspace; we were instructed to maintain 240 kts and head to VINGS Intersection for the approach to Runway 06. I read back the instructions before I realized we were going below the Class B. We were cleared to 2;000 feet; the floor in that area is 3;000 feet. The PF (Pilot Flying) realized this as well and began slowing to 200 knots. The Controller inquired about our speed and reiterated that he gave us 240 knots. I replied that we were unable due to the 200 knot FAR requirement. He replied that his instructions 'supersede' those of the regulations and to do 240 knots. I didn't reply; as the PF and I were in surprised discussion and in agreement with the 200 knot requirement. We maintained 200 knots until we re-entered the B; then picked the speed back up to comply with the original instruction. The remainder of the flight was uneventful and TCAS-free despite the Controller's assertion that another aircraft was about to hit us due to our brief and annoying speed reduction. Pilots need a published clarification about this 'NY exception' to a long-standing FAR. If it's inconvenient; then get rid of it in the FARs. When I finish this report I will be looking at the NY area SIDs; STARs; and NOTAMs for anything IN WRITING about this special rule. Either most pilots or some NY controllers need retraining. One of us is wrong.
We were at 3;000 feet; about 10 miles from VINGS for the ILS 6; inside the Class B airspace at the 3;000 feet floor; instructed by NY Approach to maintain 240 knots; which we did. We then were instructed to descend to 2;000 feet and maintain 240 knots. Once we descended below the floor of the Class B airspace; we slowed to 200 knots as required by FAR. Soon thereafter; the Controller asked our speed; and we told him 200. He said he instructed us to maintain 240; and we responded that we were required to be 200 or less below the Class B. He then said 'If I give you an airspeed; that's supersedes the rule.' We did not respond; and shortly thereafter entered a lower shelf of the Class B and accelerated to the requested 240 KIAS. The rest of the flight was uneventful. We need clarification on this; as it happens on a regular basis going through NY airspace into TEB. It is my understanding that the Controller cannot issue a direction in contradiction to a FAR. Either we as pilots; or the NY Approach controllers need to be retrained on the proper rules and procedure.
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
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