2024-02 · NASA ASRS report 2085751
Air carrier Captain reported a potential altitude deviation during descent on the FROGZ4 arrival; and recommended the procedure be modified for clarity.
Cleared via FROGZ4 west transition. Waypoints/altitudes/speeds were confirmed by both pilots. Subsequent clearance was cleared direct JAMAS. The routing text on STAR references from FROGZ." JAMAS is the waypoint 5 miles northwest of FROGZ. Clearance was issued well into the descent. Pilot monitoring attempted to contact controller for altitude clarification. However frequency congestion prevented explanation from controller until we had descended below 14000 ft. Please note we were experiencing a 100-kt. tailwind in the descent. Controller instructed us to descend to 11000 ft. He called MIA Approach Control and then instructed us to contact MIA Approach. I inquired with both controllers if there were any issues/problems. They both stated negative/no issues at all. Landed MIA without further incident. As a follow-up I called and spoke to supervisors in MIA TRACON and MIA ARTCC. MIA TRACON Supervisor confirmed; "No pilot deviation recorded in logs." I then reached out to Area Supervisor at MIA ARTCC. I spoke to Supervisor. He connected me with a controller who routinely works the MIA low sector that controls arrival on the FROGZ4. He stated that this fix is a "routine problem" for both civilian and airline crews landing west. He also stated that the controller should not have issued a clearance late in the descent; nor should he had given direct to JAMAS vs. FROGZ. He further stated the Air Space Design Manager was in the office today and that he was going to bring this "vague/misleading" text description at JAMAS waypoint again to him in order to fix this recurring confusion that flight crews encounter when MIA is in a west flow.Please add some clarification at JAMAS; i.e.; the 280 kt. west flow. OR at or above 11000 east flow."
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.