2025-01 · NASA ASRS report 2202724
Air carrier pilots reported they were advised by ATC that their aircraft was below the minimum vectoring altitude.
While briefing for arrival the first officer as pilot flying; briefed a visual approach to runway XX backed up by the ils. The decision of the visual approach was supported by the reported weather at ZZZ. On arrival into ZZZ we were told by approach control to expect the Ils XX; and I read that back. A short time later the first officer stated he had the field in sight; and we did in fact both have the field in sight; but I didn't communicate this to atc at that time. After being cleared for the approach we were approaching ZZZZZ while following the ils approach the first officer; assuming we were cleared for the visual approach; stated he was going to cut the corner and then turned to a heading toward ZZZZZ1 and selected open descent to 7000. This was helping to stay further away from the restricted area just beyond ZZZZZ. There was some discussion between the first officer and I at this time of whether we were cleared for the visual or the ils; and I couldn't remember which one we had actually been cleared for; but the first officer was under the understanding we were cleared for the visual; so we continued on the current path. At the point where we reached 7000 atc contacted us and informed us we were under minimum vectoring altitude and instructed us to climb to 8000 and gave us a slightly different heading which we complied with. Atc then cleared us for the ils approach runway XX in which I read back and we complied. At no point during the course of course of these events did we have any gpws warnings or any other aircraft warnings. Some of the factors which contributed to this event were an unclear communication between the first officer and I; unclear communication between atc and myself; and the new arrival procedures which had just been implemented about a week prior. The crew communication being unclear was partially due to the busy environment and trying to accomplish all of our duties at the same time. I should have communicated the field in sight when we had it; and also clarify whether we were cleared for the visual approach or ils with atc even though we were both very busy with him managing flying the aircraft; and me managing the monitoring of everything. We spent a good amount of time prior to entering approach environment in briefing the new procedures; and were clear on how they should be flown and set up for; but were still unsure of how we were going to be controlled by atc through them.
I was Pilot Flying on approach into ZZZ utilizing ILS XX which I briefed as a visual; backed up with the ILS XX approach. I take full ownership of my actions and accountability as the Pilot Flying that performed these actions. To help characterize the events that occurred; this is my perspective to the best of my recollection.After descending on the ZZZZZ arrival with assigned altitudes; my understanding was that we were then cleared for a visual approach to ZZZ runway XX; as I had talked with the Pilot Monitoring about the airport being in sight a few minutes prior; and ceilings supported a visual approach.In addition to this understanding that we were cleared for the visual; and knowing that the new ZZZZZ arrival brings us very close to the Restricted Area and it's associated military activity and terrain; I looked to my right to verify that the airport and surrounding terrain was still in sight; then asked the Pilot Monitoring 'are you ok with a right turn - I believe we were cleared for the visual?' There was a little hesitation/confusion but he seemed to agree so I selected a heading towards a final approach as well as a safe altitude to head that direction. (utilizing an Open Descent to 7000' MSL; heading approximately toward ZZZZZ1). Increasing the safety of flight was my motivation for doing this; thinking that it gave us more distance from the Restricted Area and its associated military activity; the terrain within it and turbulence created by the terrain in North wind; as well as the small but increasingly utilized ZZZ1 airport. We then briefly discussed the question of being cleared for the visual but were interrupted by other duties associated with flying the airplane (callouts for configuring if I remember correctly). During that time; ATC notified us that we were below the minimum vectoring altitude; and assigned us a new altitude and heading which I immediately complied with. The rest of the approach was flown uneventfully. At no time were any terrain alert features of the aircraft activated or triggered; nor was safety of flight affected from my perspective.Causal Factors & Lessons Learned:1) Miscommunication - I should have been more clear in my communication at several points -A) When reporting that I had the field in sight to the Pilot MonitoringB) When listening for our approach clearanceC)When asking if we had been cleared for the visual prior to changing course. I also should have requested & waited for confirmation that we were cleared for the visual before changing course; as I have done many times before.2)New Arrival - I believe the ZZZZZ has been published for about two weeks. I flew it only once before; and remember being uncomfortably close to the restricted area…3)Proximity to the Restricted Area & ZZZ1 airport - Although I know and respect that when under an IFR flight plan; we should be protected from Restricted Area incursions by ATC as well as NOTAM review; it is always possible to be given a visual at any point near there; at which point I prefer to have more distance from the restricted area and ZZZ1 airport; as well as from the terrain and rotor turbulence caused by it with winds out of the north. If ZZZZZ1 were not located so close to it; I wouldn't have felt the need to vary course away from it. Better NOTAM review on my part; as well as having a note in the ZZZ ATIS regarding the status of R-XXXX as does ZZZ2 ATIS could also help with local situational awareness for inbound aircraft.4)Approach confusion due to winds - I briefed the assigned ZZZZZ arrival and associated weather with contradictory North winds; which could dictate that we change to the RNAV Visual XY if winds exceeded 10 knots; which would require a different arrival as well since there is no Via for it from the ZZZZZ1. Crossing ZZZZZ1 with the assigned altitude of 9000' instead of the 11;000 on the plate; it momentarily seemed like we might have been getting a rerouting. This did not end up happening; but some of the mental questioning that I did during that time may have distracted me from hearing which approach we ended up being cleared for. This would have been easily avoided with more clear communication on my part with the Pilot Monitoring as well as ATC. Additionally; better arrival and approach options for both runways would help simplify the briefing and flying into ZZZ2. (I do however appreciate the time and effort that it took to get the procedures that we currently have.)5) Fatigue - My Reserve duty period began at XA:30; and I was called at approximately XB:00 for the XD:00 showtime during the primary Window of Circadian Low. We were then delayed due to maintenance. After this; and at the end of the last flight of the day; The approach then occurred near the afternoon trough in circadian rhythm after nearly 12 hours of duty time. I felt alert and competent throughout the flight; mitigating any effects with hydration and light caffeine intake; but I believe the effects of this timing on the body is well known and worth mentioning. It could also be partly mitigated with Crew Support notifying pilots closer to the minimum XX minute required callout instead of 2-4 hours in advance as happened here and previously; where they wake you up 30-120 minutes earlier than necessary.In conclusion; I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to share my perspective and factors that led to this; and have learned how important seemingly small details in communication are in such a high stakes environment. I would like to reiterate that I take full responsibility and ownership of my actions and I hope to carry these lessons forward in my flying career. I'm happy to help clarify or answer any questions regarding this; I'm eager to learn and improve; and hope to hear any feedback; suggestions or improvements I can make in my flying.
More incidents for this aircraft family
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.