2025-08 · NASA ASRS report 2272363
Air carrier pilots reported receiving a low altitude alert from ATC during approach.
On downwind leg tracking 079 for Runway XX approach of the ZZZZZ arrival past ZZZZZ1 we are given instructions to descend to 4000 and turn to heading 170. I entered the altitude and heading on the Mode Control Panel (MCP) but was late to select HDG and start a turn; Approximately 35 seconds late to select HDG. My unintentional error. Weather: CAVU - DaylightWe were in the turn to 170 when the controller issued an additional turn to 180. For the next 2 minutes the controller did a poor job of managing the situation. We followed every subsequent instruction the controller issued.What ensued next largely increased our workload and introduced unnecessary stress to the event by the controller. Throughout this event we were issued non-standard phraseology instructions; asked if we needed assistance; were given a low altitude alert at 4600' with an MVA of 4200' never told to stop our descent; just told to Turn your plane now" while we were fully established in a standard turn then given a traffic alert of a converging aircraft 2 miles; 11 O'clock and 1000' below us while in the right turn away from traffic. A very confusing set of instructions in a short period while being vectored to the airport environment was less than ideal.My First Officer (FO) stayed calm and professional throughout the whole event. He kept this situation from getting any worse. I take full responsibility for the late turn. What happened after the late turn should have been handled better by the controller. We never received any terrain alerts or traffic alerts from our instruments throughout the arrival. Only non-standard calls and instructions from the controller. Apparently the MVA altitude the controller was primarily focused on was a main factor in what escalated this event.At no point was the flight ever in an unsafe condition. I was not going to let the fact the controller issued non-standard phraseology in a stressed tone put me; my crew or my aircraft in an unsafe situation. The controller may have thought they were helping the situation but in reality made it worse. We were vectored back to an intercept heading to Runway XX and landed uneventfully.Cause: Mitigating factors on this event would include the company strategy. Failed to verify the turn."
We were on radar downwind for Runway XX from the ZZZZZ RNAV STAR. ATC gave us instructions to turn to heading 170 and descend and maintain 4000 feet. I read the clearance back and ensured the correct numbers were dialed in to the heading and altitude on the Mode Control Panel (MCP) and confirmed them. I then divided my scan between looking out to the right to scan for traffic that we would be following on the visual approach to XX and cross-checked the Class B airspace diagram to ensure we would be operating at a safe altitude of 4000 feet for when we were cleared the visual approach. The controller issued us a further turn to heading 180 for the approach; and I confirmed 180 heading on the MCP; and realized that the HDG button had not initially engaged. I made an accidental mistake by not verifying that the HDG mode had engaged in the Flight Mode Annunciator; only that the number was correct in the MCP window. After starting the turn; the controller subsequently told us to continue our turn to 210. The controller then asked us if we required any assistance; which confused me; then the controller attempted to issue a Low Altitude Alert for an MVA of 4;200 and acknowledged we were at 4;600. The controller's instructions did not include the 7110.65W standard phraseology Check Your Altitude Immediately"; which did not lead me to think that we were in fact going to descend below any MVA; only that the MVA for the area ahead was soon going to be 4;200 but we would be OK because we were at 4;600; turning; and still cleared to 4;000. The controller did not tell us to stop our descent or modify the altitude part of our clearance. Per the class B diagram; 4000 is a safe altitude out to the 15 DME ring from ZZZ; which I was tracking we were in; and we have no ability in the flight deck to know where all the minimum vectoring altitudes are. Shortly after that; we were issued an alert for traffic at 11 o'clock; which further distracted my attention searching for the traffic and monitoring the right turn. The next instruction that the controller issued to us included the non-standard phraseology "Turn Your Plane Now"; which was further confusing to me as we were already in a right-hand turn. We could not safely achieve any additional bank angle in the turn without creating an unusual attitude; and the Captain did a good job of maintaining safe aircraft control and not over banking the aircraft despite the controller's non-standard instructions and heightened tone of voice. We had no alerts of anything abnormal such as a TCAS TA; or a GPWS alert throughout the pattern. We were then vectored off the approach and re-vectored back in for another intercept for Runway XX. We had no idea that there was a concern with our altitude and the MVA until the ATC said that the flight might have gotten close to the MVA. It was my accidental error as the pilot monitoring that I did not ensure that the HDG mode button press had engaged the first time to start the turn.Cause: Automation Management/Monitoring- A causal factor would have been that I verified the correct heading and altitude in the Mode Control Panel window; however I accidentally did not verify that it actually engaged. In the future; I can also point to the Flight Mode Annunciator on my Primary Flight Display to double check that the correct roll mode engages.Communication-ATC- Another causal factor would be that the ATC controller did not directly address the concern that they had in standard phraseology or even in plain english. The controller asked us if we required any assistance; which was a confusing question when everything seemed normal to us. A more straightforward way to address a developing concern might have been to say 'I don't observe a turn yet on radar; stop descent at 4;200 for Minimum Vectoring Altitude.' This could have alleviated the controller from having to issue a Low Altitude Alert.Airport Conditions- Another causal factor is the amount of traffic inboundfor landing on Runway XX. During the early phases of our descent; another aircraft asked if they could get Runway XX instead of Runway XYL; and the controller replied that there is a 5:1 ratio of aircraft inbound for Runway XX versus runway XYL; and that a runway change was not possible for them. I suspect this could have also led to controller saturation; and led to the downwind leg for XX getting 'stretched out' for the aircraft in the pattern; which potentially put aircraft further to the east during the pattern; closer to potential terrain. We were already slowed to 190 per the controller's instructions; potentially slowing the downwind aircraft to 170 could have allowed more time to react in the event that altitude and terrain became an issue.Unpublished Restrictions- Minimum Vectoring Altitude information is not readily available to pilots. According to an article about MVAs; stakeholders and other pilot unions and groups have asked the FAA to release the MVA information to pilots for situational awareness. This would be an incredibly useful tool on the flight deck; leading to an increased ability to identify and trap errors. Even if it is not feasible to incorporate this into an FMS; a chart on Jepp Flight Deck Pro app; in the reference tab; or company charts; in conjunction with the aircraft moving map symbol would be a huge increase in pilot situational awareness. Yet; since the advent of the electronic flight bag; we still have no meaningful tools on the flight deck with respect to minimum vectoring altitudes. Terrain clearance is a shared responsibility with ATC; however we have no tools to assist with this besides our Ground Proximity Warning System; which does not prevent a situation from developing such as this one. In an age where air traffic is at an all-time high and visual approaches are preferred by ATC to increase traffic volume; we have no meaningful tools to choose altitudes for visual approaches besides using altitudes on IFR approaches; which do not take into account obstacle clearance areas not on the straight-in obstacle clearance surface on a charted Instrument Approach Procedure. I think having some charts for busy terminal areas (especially those with terrain concerns) would be a very valuable tool for pilot descent planning and provide an added margin of safety to mitigate the risks of controlled flight into terrain."
More incidents for this aircraft family
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.