ALT XING RESTR -- ACR DSNDS BELOW A MINIMUM XING ALT ON A STAR ARR.

1995-07 · NASA ASRS report 309866

Date: 1995-07 · Aircraft: Commercial Fixed Wing

Anomalies: deviation-altitude-crossing-restriction-not-met|deviation-altitude-excursion-from-assigned-altitude|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-published-material-policy|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance

Synopsis

ALT XING RESTR -- ACR DSNDS BELOW A MINIMUM XING ALT ON A STAR ARR.

Narrative

TAXI IN LAX; GND CTL TOLD US TO CALL TRACON ON THE LAND LINE. ON THE TELEPHONE; THE SUPVR ADVISED WE DSNDED BELOW 10000 FT AT ARNES WITHOUT CLRNC. I THOUGHT I HEARD 'CROSS BREMER AT 12000 FT; CLRED ILS RWY 25L APCH.' THE SUPVR ADVISED ME THAT NO LOSS OF SEPARATION OCCURRED AND IT WAS MOSTLY AN INSTRUCTIONAL CONVERSATION. IN RETROSPECT; WOULD IT HAVE BEEN BETTER IF WE HELD AT ARNES? THIS TRAP AT ARNES WAS SET AND SPRUNG BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING. TOLD TO FLY 320 KTS OR BETTER; 250 KTS; 180 KTS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; THEN 210 KTS. GIVEN 2 VECTORS TO INTERCEPT RWY 25L LOC AND RESUME CIVET 1. FREQ SATURATION; PEOPLE 'STEPPING ON EACH OTHER' AND TFC CALLS. FMC SHOWS NO RTE DISCONTINUITY FROM ARNES TO ILS RWY 25L -- CONTINUOUS RTE WITH STEP DOWN FIXES. NEW STARS LIKE CIVET 1 THAT ALLOW PLT 'DISCRETION DSCNTS' POWERFULLY SUGGEST THAT DSCNT BELOW 10000 FT AT ARNES IS EXPECTED. I SUGGEST THAT WE EXAMINE WAYS TO CLR FOR CIVET 1; RWY 25L ILS ALL AT ONCE; SO THE TRAP AT ARNES WOULD NOT OCCUR. IF SPD CTL WILL NOT HANDLE SEPARATION; THEN INSTRUCT AN AIRPLANE TO BREAK OUT OF FINAL AND RESEQUENCE IT. FREQ SATURATION WAS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THIS -- IT WAS CLOSE TO NO COM. I ALSO SUGGEST THAT COMMERCIAL CHART -- PUTS 'EXPECT ILS APCH' NOTE AT ARNES IN BOLD TYPE.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

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