AN ACR WAS VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L WITH A SPD RESTR AND AN ALT RESTR OF 6000 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON FINAL APCH. THE FLC MISINTERPED THE CLRNC AND DSNDED PRIOR TO INTERCEPTING THE FINAL APCH COURSE AND THE APCH CTLR WAS ANNOYED.

1997-02 · NASA ASRS report 360817

Date: 1997-02 · Aircraft: Commercial Fixed Wing · Phase: approach

Anomalies: deviation-altitude-overshoot|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance

Synopsis

AN ACR WAS VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L WITH A SPD RESTR AND AN ALT RESTR OF 6000 FT UNTIL ESTABLISHED ON FINAL APCH. THE FLC MISINTERPED THE CLRNC AND DSNDED PRIOR TO INTERCEPTING THE FINAL APCH COURSE AND THE APCH CTLR WAS ANNOYED.

Narrative

AFTER PASSING CRESO INTXN ON THE CRESO ARR TO LAS WE WERE GIVEN A NORTHERLY VECTOR PRIOR TO BLD VOR AND AT ABOUT 10 DME FROM THE LAS VOR WERE TOLD BY LAS APCH CTL TO LOOK FOR TFC 12-1 O'CLOCK POS MOVING WBOUND ON FINAL TO RWY 25L. WE WERE GIVEN DSCNT CLRNC FROM 10000 FT TO 8000 FT AND THEN FURTHER CLRNC DOWN TO 6000 FT. WE ADVISED APCH WE HAD THE TFC A MIN OR TWO LATER PASSING FROM 12 TO 11 O'CLOCK POS. AT THAT POINT WE WERE CLRED A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L TO FOLLOW THE TFC AND TOLD TO MAINTAIN 170 KTS. HAVING OPERATED INTO LAS REGULARLY FOR MANY YRS WE WERE WELL AWARE OF THE TCA/CLASS B AIRSPACE CONFINES AND HAD BRIEFED IT JUST A FEW MINS BEFOREHAND SO AS TO STAY WITHIN IT UNTIL ON THE GS WITHIN 10 DME OF THE LAS VOR AT WHICH POINT IT EXTENDS TO THE SURFACE. SINCE WE WERE QUITE HIGH AND WITHIN 10 DME AND THEREFORE ONLY 8 MI TO TOUCHDOWN I CONTINUED MY DSCNT ON BASE LEG TO MAINTAIN 4800 FT MSL TILL ON THE LOC. WE WERE NOW ABOUT 8 DME AT 4800-4900 FT AND ABOUT TO TURN FINAL (A 90 DEG TURN ON) WITH THE GS FULLY DEFLECTED DOWN. IN OTHER WORDS WE WERE HIGH AND DOING 170 KTS BUT STILL IN A GOOD POS FOR A NORMAL LNDG SINCE LAS APCH ALWAYS KEEPS EVERYONE HIGHER THAN MOST OTHER ARPTS. AT THIS POINT APCH CALLED AND ASKED IF WE WERE STILL AT 6000 FT. THE FO (PNF) REPLIED NO; THAT WE WERE DSNDING TO TURN FINAL AND APCH QUITE ANNOYEDLY REPLIED THAT WE WERE ONLY CLRED TO 6000 FT TILL FINAL AND THAT IF WE COULD NOT FOLLOW HER INSTRUCTIONS THEN WE SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED HER CLRNC. AT THIS SAME TIME SHE SWITCHED US TO TWR AND WE CONTINUED OUR APCH AND LANDED ON RWY 25L. I BELIEVE THE PROB AROSE WITH THE ORIGINAL CLRNC TO 8000 FT AND THEN TO 6000 FT. AT THAT TIME WE WERE TOLD TO LOOK FOR OUR TFC AND WE DID NOT FIND HIM FOR ANOTHER MIN OR SO. THIS WAS FOLLOWED BY A LENGTHY CLRNC THAT EVIDENTLY CLRED US TO MAINTAIN BOTH 6000 FT TILL FINAL AND 170 KTS. I ONLY HEARD THE 170 KTS TO BE MAINTAINED. I THINK THE CLRNC COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER PHRASED WITH EMPHASIS ON THE 6000 FT. IF WE HAD TO MAINTAIN 6000 FT TILL LITERALLY ON THE LOC WE'D HAVE BEEN AT 6000 FT AT 8 DME WHICH WOULD HAVE PUT US VERY HIGH ON GLIDE PATH (6.3 MI FROM END OF RWY) OR OVER 2000 FT HIGH AT THE EQUIVALENT OF THE OM. I THINK THIS WAS AN UNNECESSARY AND POOR CLRNC AND THE CTLR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. WE WERE NOT IN THE VICINITY OF ANY OF THE HILLS S AND SE OF LAS; IT WAS CAVU; AND I WAS VERY SURPRISED BY THE ORIGINAL CLRNC WHICH WE WERE GIVEN FOR NO APPARENT REASON. I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE WERE GIVEN THE 6000 FT RESTR TO FINAL SINCE WE WERE HIGH ANYWAY AND WELL WITHIN CLASS B AIRSPACE AND NOWHERE NEAR ANY TERRAIN; ACFT OR NOISE SENSITIVE AREAS. THE COPLT THOUGHT WE WERE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF FINAL APCH AND PERFECTLY EXECUTING WHAT WE WERE INSTRUCTED AND CLRED TO DO SAFELY. I THINK THE PROB RESTS WITH THIS PARTICULAR APCH FACILITY AND THEIR SOP OF KEEPING EVERYONE ABNORMALLY HIGH. IN OUR CASE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN ALL PROBABILITY TOO HIGH TO SHOOT A NORMAL APCH AND FOR REASONS STILL UNBEKNOWNST TO ME AND MY CREW.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

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