A SAAB 340 CLBS TO AVOID AN ACR B737 WHICH IS PASSING HIM WITH VISUAL SEPARATION. PLT COMPLAINS THAT WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME SUCH A SIT OCCURRED WITH SAME ACR. ZBW GAVE CLRNC FOR THE CLB USING VISUAL SEPARATION.

1997-04 · NASA ASRS report 367022

Date: 1997-04 · Aircraft: Saab-Scania Undifferentiated or Other Model

Anomalies: conflict-nmac|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-far|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-published-material-policy|other-unspecified

Synopsis

A SAAB 340 CLBS TO AVOID AN ACR B737 WHICH IS PASSING HIM WITH VISUAL SEPARATION. PLT COMPLAINS THAT WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME SUCH A SIT OCCURRED WITH SAME ACR. ZBW GAVE CLRNC FOR THE CLB USING VISUAL SEPARATION.

Narrative

AN ACR A B737 WAS LEVEL AT 13000 FT AND TOLD HIGHER REF TFC; SAAB AT 14000 FT. THE B737 CREW CALLED US IN SIGHT PRIOR TO OUR VISUAL ACQUISITION OF THEM. THE TA AND THE XMISSION TO THEM TO CLB THROUGH OUR ALT CAME AT SAME TIME. WE THEN ACQUIRED THE B737 VISUALLY AS THEY WERE BEING TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION. THE NEXT XMISSION WAS INFORMING US OF THEIR INTENT TO WHICH I RESPONDED ROGER AND THEY SHOULD PASS BEHIND US. BY SAYING THAT I WAS TRYING TO INFORM THEM THAT OUR 280 KIAS CRUISE SPD AND THEIR CLB SPD WOULD RESULT IN A CPA OF COLLISION COURSE IF THEY DID NOT PLAN ACCORDINGLY. THEY PROCEEDED TO CLB RAPIDLY RIGHT AT US RESULTING IN A TCASII RA OF 'CLB' AND A VSI INDICATION OF 1500 FPM OR BETTER TO AVOID COLLISION. I INFORMED ZBW WE WERE CLBING IN RESPONSE TO OUR TCASII RA. WE CLBED 750 FT ABOVE OUR ALT TO AVOID COLLISION AND WHEN ISSUED 'CLR OF CONFLICT' WE DSNDED BACK TO 14000 FT. THE ACR A JET CLRLY VIOLATED THEIR CLRNC TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION! LATER THAT SAME DAY; SAME SCENARIO WAS DEVELOPING WITH MD80 AND THEY CLBED GRADUALLY AND WENT BEHIND US AND IT WAS PERFECT. I ADMIT WE WERE BOTH (FO AND MYSELF) UNEASY WHEN SECOND SIT WAS DEVELOPING; BUT WAS EXECUTED FLAWLESSLY BY THE ACR B CREW. 2 MONTHS EARLIER FEB/XX/97; ANOTHER ACR A B737 DID THE SAME AS THIS ONE DID AND CLBED RIGHT AT US ON THE SAME CLB THROUGH AND MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION CLRNC RESULTING IN AN RA; HOWEVER THIS CREW WAS EVEN MORE NAIVE THEN APR/YY/97; ACR A CREW AS THEY SAID 'WE GOT A TCASII RA ON THAT!' AFTER THEY CAUSED IT. ONE COULD SURMISE A PROB AT ACR A TRAINING ON B737; NOT A VERY FAST JET VERSUS ACR B ON MD80 A FASTER JET THAT CLBS UP THROUGH BEHIND EVEN A 'NON JET' ACFT. THE INABILITY OF THE ACR B737 CREW'S TO PLOT CPA'S AND PROCEED ACCORDINGLY IS BECOMING MOST DISCONCERTING. (APR/YY/97; WAS MY BIRTHDAY AND I WAS TOO CLOSE TO NOT SEEING IT THROUGH.) THIS EVENT WAS RPTED TO ZBW WHO WASHED THEIR HANDS OF IT BECAUSE WHEN IT WAS ISSUED IT MET THEIR CRITERIA.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

Loading the flight search…

Frequently asked questions

How do I search flights by aircraft type on FlightFinder?

Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.

Which aircraft types can I filter by?

We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.

Is FlightFinder free to use?

Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.

Where does the route data come from?

Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.