AN LR35 PIC IS CITED BY APCH CTLR FOR NOT MAKING THE ALT XING RESTR 43 MI SW OF BLD AT 12000 FT; L30; NV.

2000-03 · NASA ASRS report 467433

Date: 2000-03 · Aircraft: Learjet 35 · Phase: descent

Anomalies: deviation-altitude-crossing-restriction-not-met|deviation-altitude-undershoot|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-published-material-policy|other-rate-of-descent

Synopsis

AN LR35 PIC IS CITED BY APCH CTLR FOR NOT MAKING THE ALT XING RESTR 43 MI SW OF BLD AT 12000 FT; L30; NV.

Narrative

WAS ON AN IFR FLT PLAN FROM VNY TO LAS. THE RTE WAS VNY TO PMD TO DAG AND AT DAG CRESSO 3 ARR TO LAS. ON THE ARR (STAR) BTWN JOKUR INTXN AND WHIGG INTXN; ZLA CLRED ME TO CROSS WHIGG INTXN AT 12000 FT (WHIGG INTXN IS 43 DME FROM THE BLD VOR AND A BEARING INBOUND OF 33 DEGS). AT APPROX PM30Z ZLA ASKED ME TO CONTACT LAS APCH. AT THIS POINT IN TIME I WAS DSNDING OUT OF 13500 FT; I WAS AT 46 DME FROM THE BLD VOR; WHICH PUT ME 3 MI FROM THE WHIGG INTXN AND DSNDING AT 4000 FPM. WHEN WE CONTACTED LAS APCH WE WERE AT 13000 FT; 45 DME FROM BLD VOR; AND 2 MI FROM THE WHIGG INTXN; PLEASE READ NEXT 2 SECTIONS CAREFULLY BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE THE PROB STARTS. BY THE TIME WE FINISHED RPTING TO APCH CTL; WE WERE AT 12400 FT AND 44 DME FROM THE WHIGG INTXN; WHICH PUT US 1 MI FROM THE WHIGG INTXN. AT THIS POINT APCH CTL ASKED US IF WE RECEIVED A XING RESTR (AT THIS POINT IN TIME WE WERE AT WHIGG INTXN; AT 12000 FT AND 43.5 DME WHICH PUT US 1/2 MI FROM WHIGG). WE THEN REPLIED 'YES; WHIGG INTXN AT 12000 FT.' BECAUSE APCH QUESTIONED THE RESTR; I WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT WE WERE AT 12000 FT AT WHIGG. I MENTIONED TO LAS APCH CTL; WE CROSSED WHIGG INTXN AT 12000 FT; 43 DME FROM BLD VOR. HIS REPLY BACK TO ME WAS 'YOU ARE 5 MI N OF WHIGG.' I DID NOT WANT TO ARGUE WITH HIM SO I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING AFTER THAT. PLEASE NOTE THAT BY THE TIME HE ASKED US IF WE RECEIVED A RESTR AND BY THE TIME WE ANSWERED HIM AND BY THE TIME I CONFIRMED I WAS AT WHIGG IT IS VERY LIKELY I COULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN 5 MI PAST WHIGG. PLEASE NOTE ALSO FROM ABOVE SECTION THAT WHEN APCH ASKED US IF WE RECEIVED A RESTR FROM CTR I WAS ALREADY AT 12000 FT AND STILL HAD 1/2 MI TO GO BEFORE REACHING WHIGG. THE PROB WE HAVE HERE IS WHEN THE ACFT IS DSNDING AT 3000 FT OR MORE CTR OR APCH CTL'S ALT RPTING RADAR DOES NOT DISPLAY THE CORRECT OR ACTUAL ALT THE ACFT IS DSNDING AT. IF THE PERSON READING THE RADAR DOES NOT KNOW THIS; HE VERY LIKELY TO THINK I AM NOT AT THE ALT I AM SUPPOSED TO BE AT. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO ALSO KNOW THAT ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS WHEN I AM CLBING OUT AND CLBING AT 3500 FPM OR MORE APCH WILL ASK ME WHAT ALT I'M AT AND WHEN I TELL HIM I'M CLBING OUT OF A CERTAIN ALT HIS RADAR IS TELLING HIM I'M STILL 1000 FT LOWER THAN WHAT I AM ACTUALLY AT. THE SAME WITH CTR SOMETIMES THEY ASK ME TO INCREASE MY RATE OF DSCNT BECAUSE OF TFC AND WHEN I INCREASE IT TO 3500 FT OR MORE THEY'RE CONSTANTLY ASKING ME WHAT ALT I'M AT BECAUSE THEY KNOW I'M DSNDING MUCH FAST THAN THEIR RADAR IS DISPLAYING.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

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