2000-04 · NASA ASRS report 469162
A CLBING CL65 LOSES SEPARATION WITH A CRUISING EMB120 WHEN ZMA CTLR MISJUDGES THE CL65'S PERFORMANCE NEAR MCO; FL.
WE WERE OPERATING A SCHEDULED FLT FROM MCO TO FLL. WE WERE GIVEN TO ORL 6 DEP OFF RWY 17 AT MCO. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. THE TKOF AND CLBOUT OF ORL CLASS B AIRSPACE WAS NORMAL. ONCE WE CHKED ON WITH ZMA; THEY TOLD US TO DO 310 KIAS OR GREATER. THE TEMP AT MCO WAS ABOUT 26 DEGS C; WE ALSO WEIGHED APPROX 51000 LBS. SO; IN ORDER TO DO THE 310 KIAS OR GREATER; OUR CLB RATE WOULD HAVE TO SUFFER. SO WE WERE CLBING AT ABOUT 8000-1000 FPM AT 310 KIAS. THEN ATC ASKED OUR CLB RATE. I WAS FLYING; SO THE CAPT RESPONDED '800-1000 FPM.' THEY ALSO ASKED OUR SPD AGAIN. ATC THEN TOLD US TO TURN L TO 060 DEGS AND CALLED THE TFC TO US AT THE 1 O'CLOCK POS. I NEVER SAW THE TFC VISUALLY. I DID HAVE THEM ON THE TCASII. WE NEVER GOT AN RA OR EVEN A 'TFC' OR A 'CLB; CLB.' THE TCASII WAS IN NORMAL OP AS WELL. SO WE TURNED TO THE ASSIGNED 060 DEG HDG AND CONTINUED TO FLL. WE NEVER EVEN KNEW THERE WAS A SEPARATION PROB UNTIL WE GOT ON THE GND AT FLL. ONCE WE CLRED THE RWY AT FLL; THE GND CTLR TOLD US TO CALL A NUMBER AND TALK TO THE SHIFT SUPVR AT ZMA. THE CAPT CALLED AND THEN TOLD ME WHAT HAPPENED. I BELIEVE THE CTLR THOUGHT THAT OUR CLB RATE WOULD BE BETTER THAN IT WAS. WHEN THE CAPT CALLED; THE SHIFT SUPVR EVEN SAID THAT THEIR MANUAL SAID WE COULD CLB 3000 FPM; THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE AT THAT TEMP AND WT. I THINK THE ATC MANUAL'S INFO ABOUT THE CL-65 SHOULD REFLECT ACTUAL REALISTIC CLB RATES; SO PROBS LIKE THIS WILL NOT OCCUR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 469145: THE ZMA CTLR GAVE US A TFC CALL 'EMB120 1 O'CLOCK AND 5 MI.' WE RESPONDED WITH 'NO CONTACT.' THE EMB120 TOLD ZMA THEY HAD US VISUALLY. A NEW CTLR CAME ON AND THE FLT CONTINUED UNEVENTFULLY. THE CTR SUPVR TOLD US THAT WE HAD LOST REQUIRED SEPARATION WITH THE EMB120. WE WERE 4.3 MI AND 500 FT APART. THE CL65 WILL NOT CLB AT 3000 FPM ABOUT 10000 FT. I COULD SAY THE AVERAGE CLB RATE IS 1500-2500 FPM ABOVE 10000 FT. THIS NUMBER GETS LOWER AS THE ACFT CLBS IN THE 30'S TO ABOUT 500 FPM. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO LET CTLRS KNOW THAT IF THEY ASK AN ACFT TO SPD UP IN A CLB; THE CLB RATE WILL BE LESS THAN NORMAL.
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Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
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