2000-09 · NASA ASRS report 486550
FLC OF A C525 REFUSED TO EXCEED THE 200 KT MAX SPD UNDERNEATH CLASS B AIRSPACE WHEN ASKED BY APCH CTLR TO INCREASE SPD.
I WAS ACTING AS SIC ON A CPR PAX FLT FROM 7D2 TO PWK IN CHICAGO. WE WERE RECEIVING RADAR VECTORS FROM CHICAGO APCH CTL ON 120.55. AT APPROX 30 MI FROM ORD VOR; WE RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS TO DSND FROM 4000 FT TO 3000 FT; WHICH CAUSED US TO BE UNDER CHICAGO'S CLASS B AIRSPACE WHICH BEGINS AT 25 NM WITH A FLOOR OF 3600 FT ON THE E SIDE. BEFORE REACHING THE 25 NM POINT FROM ORD; WE APPROPRIATELY SLOWED TO THE REQUIRED 200 NM PER HR SPD RESTR AS PER 91.117C. UPON 22 DME FROM ORD VOR; CHICAGO APCH ASKED US OUR INDICATED SPD AND I REPLIED '200 KIAS.' APCH TOLD US TO INCREASE SPD TO 250 KIAS. AFTER A QUICK DISCUSSION WITH THE CAPT; I REPLIED 'UNABLE 250 KIAS; UNDER CLASS B; AIRSPACE; WE WOULD LIKE TO STAY AT 200 KIAS. WHY DO YOU NEED US AT 250 KIAS?' THE CTLR REPLIED 'WELL; THERE IS A LOT OF TFC IN THE AREA AND I AM TRYING TO SET YOU UP FOR FIRST TO PWK.' I REPLIED 'WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT BEING FIRST TO PWK AND WE ARE REQUIRED TO BE AT 200 KIAS UNDER CLASS B AND WE WOULD LIKE TO REMAIN HERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PROB WITH THAT.' THE CTLR REPLIED; 'I ONLY HAVE A PROB WITH THE VFR TFC AT 2 O'CLOCK POS AND 3 MI.' I REPLIED 'WE HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT.' HE THEN TOLD US TO MAINTAIN A MINIMUM OF 200 KTS FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE AND CONTACT PWK TWR ON 119.9. I READ BACK THE CLRNC OF 'MAINTAIN 200 KIAS AND CONTACT TWR ON 119.9.' IT WAS VERY DISCONCERTING TO HEAR A CLRNC FROM ATC THAT WAS CONTRARY TO FARS IN THE OPINION OF THE CAPT FLYING AND MYSELF; ACTING AS SIC. I ADMIT THAT THERE IS AN ARGUMENT FOR ALWAYS OBEYING ATC INSTRUCTION (91.123B). HOWEVER; I AM ALSO AWARE THAT THE PLTS ARE RESPONSIBLE TO OBEY FARS EVEN IF WE ARE GIVEN A CLRNC CONTRARY TO THEM. THE 91.117C REG IS SO CLR AND PRECISE THAT I FEEL IT GIVES NO ROOM FOR DOUBT. IT DOES NOT STATE AN 'UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED;' OR 'UNLESS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BY ATC.' IT CLRLY STATES 'NO PERSON MAY OPERATE AN ACFT IN THE AIRSPACE UNDERLYING A CLASS B AIRSPACE AREA DESIGNATED FOR AN ARPT; OR IN A VFR CORRIDOR DESIGNATED THROUGH SUCH A CLASS B AIRSPACE AREA; AT AN INDICATED AIRSPD OF MORE THAN 200 KTS.' I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT UNLESS ATC GAVE US A 'TFC ALERT' CALL; OR STATED 'DUE TO CONFLICTING TFC MAINTAIN 250 KIAS;' WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN VIOLATION IF WE COMPLIED WITH THE CLRNC. IT SEEMS THAT THE REASON OF 'THERE IS A LOT OF TFC IN THE AREA AND I AM TRYING TO SET YOU UP FOR FIRST TO PWK;' IS NOT REASON ENOUGH TO ISSUE A CLRNC CONTRARY TO AN FAR. IT SEEMED THAT OUR REJECTION OF THE CLRNC CAUGHT THE CTLR OFF GUARD; AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT. I DO WONDER IF ATC WAS COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SPD REQUIREMENT OR THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE.
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.