2001-01 · NASA ASRS report 497009
C172 INSTRUCTOR QUESTIONS JVL CTLR WHEN ADVISED THAT C172; IN TFC PATTERN; WAS IN CONFLICT WITH BE90 ON VOR 22 APCH 5 MI N OF ARPT.
I WAS INSTRUCTING A POST SOLO STUDENT IN A NEW AIRPLANE (C172) AT A NEW ARPT (HIS 4TH FLT AT JVL). AFTER 50 MINS OF AIR WORK; WE RETURNED FOR TOUCH-AND-GOES ON RWY 22. AFTER CLBOUT FROM THE FIRST TOUCH-AND-GO; ATC ASKED TO MAKE R TFC. THE STUDENT MISSED THE CALL; SO I READ IT BACK. THE PATTERN WAS NORMAL UNTIL BASE (APPROX 1 MI N OF ARPT) WHERE THE STUDENT HAD NOT STARTED HIS DSCNT TO THE RWY FROM PATTERN ALT. SINCE WE HAD NOT RECEIVED CLRNC FOR ANOTHER TOUCH-AND-GO AND THE STUDENT WAS BEHIND THE AIRPLANE; I CALLED ATC ADVISING R BASE. AT THIS POINT; ATC TOLD US TO MAKE A L TURN; ' I HAVE TFC AT BLACK; I TOLD YOU TO RPT BEFORE TURNING BASE.' THE STUDENT ASKED ME WHAT THE CTLR WANTED; AS THE CTLR FINISHED THE XMISSION AND SINCE A L TURN WOULD HAVE TURNED US IN TO THE TFC ON FINAL; I ASKED THE CTLR TO SAY AGAIN. ATC STATED 'FLY THROUGH FINAL AND ENTER AN EXTENDED L DOWNWIND; I TOLD YOU TO RPT MIDFIELD R DOWNWIND. DIDN'T YOU HEAR I HAD KING AIR TFC AT BLACK.?' BEFORE I COULD RESPOND; THE STUDENT ASKED ME WHAT 'BLACK' WAS. I RESPONDED TO ATC; 'NO SIR YOU DID NOT.' ATC RESPONDED 'I TOLD YOU TO RPT BEFORE TURNING R BASE WHEN I TOLD YOU TO MAKE R TFC.' RATHER THAN ARGUE OVER THE RADIO; I ASKED FOR THE CTLR'S INITIALS. ATC RESPONDED WITH INITIALS AND CLRED US TO FOLLOW THE BONANZA (SECOND AIRPLANE) OVER 'BLACK;' WHICH I ACKNOWLEDGED. THE STUDENT ASKED WHAT 'BLACK' WAS. I ASKED THE STUDENT WHAT HE WOULD DO IF I WASN'T THERE. THE STUDENT ASKED ATC WHAT 'BLACK' WAS. ATC ANSWERED IT'S AN INTXN 5 MI NE OF THE ARPT. (BLACK IS THE FAF FOR THE VOR/DME 22.) THE STUDENT FOLLOWED THE SECOND AIRPLANE (5 MI FINAL) TO ANOTHER TOUCH-AND-GO; FOLLOWED BY A FULL STOP. AS LUCK WOULD HAVE IT; ONE OF THE LCL CTLRS (I THINK A SUPVR) WAS AT THE FBO WHEN WE LANDED. I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE SIT. HE SAID IT DIDN'T SOUND RIGHT. SINCE I WAS ON BASE AND THE KING AIR AT 'BLACK' THERE WAS AT LEAST 4 MI SEPARATION. 'YOU COULD HAVE BEEN BACK ON DOWNWIND BY THE TIME THE KING TOUCHED DOWN.' I ASKED HIM IF IT WAS SOP TO RPT TFC AT AN IFR INTXN. HE SAID NO; THAT APCH ISN'T USED OFTEN AND BESIDES NO VFR PLT KNOWAS WHERE IT IS. (MY POINT EXACTLY.) I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE TURNING BASE RPT THE CTLR INSISTED HE GAVE ME; BUT I DON'T THINK HE DID. HE TOLD ME SOME OF THE CTLRS AROUND HERE TELL ACFT TO RPT BASE ALL THE TIME AND HE MAY HAVE THOUGHT HE GAVE YOU THAT. HE SAID HE WOULD LISTEN TO THE TAPE AND GET BACK TO ME. THIS TWR IS RUN BY A CONTRACT SVC NOT BY THE FAA. MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE HAD SEVERAL PROBS HERE. MOST OF THE SITS ARE THE RESULT OF LOSS OF SITUATIONAL AWARENESS ON THE PART OF THE LCL CTLRS.
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.