B727 CREW ENCOUNTERED AN ARTCC RADAR CTLR WITH AN EXTREMELY SURLY ATTITUDE IN ZLC CLASS A AIRSPACE.

2000-12 · NASA ASRS report 497129

Date: 2000-12 · Aircraft: B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model · Phase: cruise

Anomalies: inflight-event-encounter-other-unknown|inflight-event-encounter-weather-turbulence|other-ctlr-surly-attitude

Synopsis

B727 CREW ENCOUNTERED AN ARTCC RADAR CTLR WITH AN EXTREMELY SURLY ATTITUDE IN ZLC CLASS A AIRSPACE.

Narrative

FILED PIH DIRECT BOY. UPON PASSING OVERHEAD PIH; HAD DIFFICULTY ESTABLISHING OUTBOUND ON 062B DEG RADIAL DUE TO WIND. REQUESTED RADAR VECTOR TO BOY FROM ZLC (FREQ 128.35). CTLR RESPONDED 'NEGATIVE.' WE WERE CONFUSED BY THE RESPONSE. I THOUGHT THE CTLR MAY HAVE THOUGHT WE WERE REQUESTING A VECTOR FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD ON OUR FLT PLAN; SO I EXPLAINED OUR NAV SIT TO HIM. HE THEN STATED 'WHY DO YOU GUYS FILE FOR SOMETHING YOU CAN'T FLY?' HE THEN SAID 'FLY A 060 DEG HDG.' I BELIEVE THIS MISUNDERSTANDING EMANATES FROM THE PROLIFERENCE OF GLASS COCKPITS AND RNAV. MORE RECENTLY QUALIFIED CTLRS; I BELIEVE; ARE IGNORANT OF THE LIMITATIONS OF VOR EQUIPPED ACFT AND THEIR LACK OF PRECISION IN COMPARISON TO GLASS COCKPITS AND RNAV. EVENTUALLY; WE COULD HAVE ESTABLISHED OURSELVES OUTBOUND ON THE PROPER RADIAL WITH THE CORRECT WIND CORRECTION ANGLE; BUT I THOUGHT A VECTOR FROM THE CTLR WAS THE MORE EXPEDITIOUS AND THEREFORE SAFEST ALTERNATIVE TO AVOIDING ANY CONFLICTING TFC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 497140: AS WE PASSED THE PIH VOR; AS THE PNF; I CHKED THE TIME AND FUEL ON THE FLT PLAN AND NOTICED WE WERE NOT YET RECEIVING BOYSEN RESERVOIR (BOY); THE NEXT FLT PLAN POINT. WE WERE FILED DIRECT; SO I LOOKED AT THE FLT PLAN; BUT WAS SURE INITIALLY WHICH HDG WAS FOR BOY; THE 062 DEG OR 088 DEG RADIAL. I SHOWED IT TO THE PF (CAPT) AND HE DECIDED IT WAS THE 088 DEG RADIAL. AFTER I UNFOLDED MY CHART; I NOTICED THAT 088 DEG COURSE WAS J54; AND WENT S OF BOY. I TOLD THE CAPT THAT I THOUGHT IT WAS 062 DEGS TO BOY; SO HE HAD ME ASK FOR A VECTOR. ZLC REPLIED WITH 'NEGATIVE.' THE CAPT THEN ASKED FOR A VECTOR; T WHICH ZLC REPLIED 'WHY DID YOU FILE SOMETHING YOU CAN'T FLY? FLY HDG 060 DEGS.' THIS TOOK APPROX 20 NM OUT THE 088 DEG RADIAL; OR ABOUT 8 NM OFF COURSE. THE PROB WAS THAT WE MISREAD OUR FLT PLAN. WE FIGURED IT OUT IN TIME; BUT WAS DENIED HELP WHEN WE ASKED FOR IT. THE 088 DEG COURSE WAS 'TO' PIH; NOT 'FROM' IT. UNLIKE SOME MIL CHARTS; THE COMMERCIAL CHART DOESN'T INCLUDE A COMPASS ROSE AROUND VOR STATIONS; WHICH MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO TELL IF YOU ARE HDG OUT THE RIGHT DIRECTION (ALTHOUGH IN THIS CASE J54 WAS EXACTLY THE HDG WE WERE ON; BUT WAS WELL S OF OUR COURSE). ADDITIONALLY; ONCE WE WERE OFF OUR INTENDED RTE; WE HAD FEW OPTIONS TO TRULY PROCEED DIRECT BOY; WITHOUT HELP. I DON'T THINK THAT ANY BIG CHANGES SHOULD BE MADE TO THE CORRECT ATC/NAV SYS AS MOST ACFT NOW HAVE FMS; GPS; OR SOME FORM OF RNAV CAPABILITY; AND THOSE THAT DON'T WILL BE SHORT LIVED. ALL I WOULD ASK IS THAT ATC WOULD HAVE SOME COMPASSION FOR THOSE OF US STILL NAVING ON VORS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DIRECTION TO TURN; WHAT THE WINDS ARE DOING; ETC.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

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