FLT CREW OF B737; INTIMIDATED BY PRESENCE OF CHK AIRMAN AND DRIVEN BY GET IT DONEITUS; GET HIGH AND FAST ON ARR TO ONT AND PRESS ON REGARDLESS OF RESULTING UNSTABILIZED APCH.

2003-11 · NASA ASRS report 600665

Date: 2003-11 · Aircraft: B737-700 · Phase: approach

Anomalies: deviation-speed-all-types|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-published-material-policy|inflight-event-encounter-unstabilized-approach

Synopsis

FLT CREW OF B737; INTIMIDATED BY PRESENCE OF CHK AIRMAN AND DRIVEN BY GET IT DONEITUS; GET HIGH AND FAST ON ARR TO ONT AND PRESS ON REGARDLESS OF RESULTING UNSTABILIZED APCH.

Narrative

INBOUND TO ONT ON ZIGGY 3; WE WERE HELD UP HIGH FOR XING TFC PRIOR TO MAJIC. CLRED TO CROSS HITOP AT 13000 FT; AND WE DID. AFTER CLRNC TO 8000 FT AND VECTOR FOR ILS; WE WERE ABOVE DSCNT PROFILE FOR OUR COURSE (IT WAS ONT). I FELT LIKE THE CAPT WAS NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH IN HIS DSCNT. I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING UNTIL WE WERE AT ABOUT 10000 FT AND ABOUT 17 MI TO GO. I THEN SAID; 'WE'RE REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO BONZAI THIS ONE.' IN RETROSPECT; MY STATEMENT WAS OBSCURE; HOWEVER; THE CAPT GOT THE MESSAGE. HE PUT THE GEAR DOWN AT THAT POINT (THE FLAPS WERE ALREADY AT 5 DEGS). AFTER GEAR DOWN; HOWEVER; I STILL KNEW THAT HE HAD TO BE MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE; IF THIS APCH WAS GOING TO WORK. IN FACT; I THOUGHT WE WERE FACING A GAR AT NO LATER THAN 1000 FT. AT ABOUT 8000 FT; THE CTLR EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT OUR DSCNT; AND ASKED OUR INTENTIONS. I ASKED THE CAPT WHAT HE WANTED TO DO. WE ARRIVED AT PETIS APPROX 2000-2500 FT HIGH. AFTER SOME HESITATION; HE ASKED ME TO ASK FOR S-TURNS. I ASKED ATC AND HE ISSUED A VECTOR S OF COURSE. AT ABOUT THIS TIME THE CAPT STARTED ASKING FOR MORE FLAPS; 15 DEGS THEN 25 DEGS. OUR AIRSPD WAS A LITTLE HIGH BUT WITHIN ALL LIMITS. ATC THEN ISSUED A VECTOR OF 330 DEGS TO FLY THROUGH THE LOC. AS WE TURNED NW; A TA WAS ISSUED BY ATC. IT WAS IN THE DIRECTION WE WERE TURNING AND AT AN ALT THAT MADE HIM A FACTOR. SO MY EYES WENT OUTSIDE. I WAS FEELING APPREHENSIVE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE S-TURNS WERE GETTING TOO AGGRESSIVE AND STILL THOUGHT WE WERE TOO HIGH TO BE SUCCESSFUL. ATC MUST HAVE AGREED; BECAUSE HE OFFERED A 360 DEG TURN. THE CAPT OPTED TO CONTINUE WITH THE S-TURNS. I STILL HAD MY HEAD UP LOOKING FOR THE TFC WHEN THE CAPT CALLED FLAPS 30 DEGS AND I HEARD THE 'BANK ANGLE' ALERT. THAT BROUGHT ME BACK INSIDE TO THE GAUGES (OUR HDG WAS 360 DEGS). RIGHT THEN THE CAPT WAS CORRECTING AND STARTING A TURN BACK TOWARD THE LOC. I HAD PUT MY HAND ON THE FLAP HANDLE; BUT WHEN I LOOKED AT THE AIRSPD IT WAS IN THE YELLOW BAND ON THE HIGH SIDE. I DID NOT MOVE THE HANDLE; AND SIMULTANEOUSLY THE CAPT NOTICED; AS WELL; AND BELAYED THE FLAP COMMAND AND SLOWLY CORRECTED THE AIRSPD. AS WE CROSSED THROUGH THE LOC (ON A VECTOR) TO THE S; I SAW THE ARPT AND POINTED IT OUT TO THE CAPT. HE TURNED TOWARD FINAL AND; WITH SPD IN CTL; ASKED FOR FLAPS 30 DEGS AND 40 DEGS. MUCH TO MY SURPRISE; BY 1000 FT AGL WE CONFIGURED AND WERE IN A POS TO LAND IN A STABLE MANNER. WE LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. THERE WAS A COMPANY CHK AIRMAN IN THE JUMPSEAT. I THINK HIS PRESENCE HAD AN IMPACT ON THE EVENT; BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO BRING ATTN TO THE CAPT'S DSCNT PLANNING. I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT UNTIL LATER. ALTHOUGH I DID GIVE AN OBSCURE HINT AT 10000 FT; I REGRET NOT SAYING MORE AND IN A DIRECT MANNER. I SHOULD HAVE EXPRESSED MY CONCERN ABOUT HIS INITIAL LACK OF AGGRESSIVENESS IN DSNDING. AND THEN; LATER SUGGESTED THAT WE ACCEPT A 360 DEG TURN OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES; BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WE SHOULD DO AT THE TIME. I'M NORMALLY VERY ASSERTIVE; SO I SURPRISED MYSELF. IN THE FUTURE; I WILL DISREGARD THE 'STATUS' OF THE JUMPSEATER AND SPEAK UP.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

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