CLRED DIRECT TO DOCAT FIX OFF THE BRADE ARR TO RDU; CAPT OF A B737-200 DISCOVERS FIX IS NOT IN THE DATABASE AND MUST BE PROGRAMMED. RESULTING DELAY IN ACTING ON CLRNC IS NOTED BY APCH CTLR.

2005-06 · NASA ASRS report 660798

Date: 2005-06 · Aircraft: B737-200 · Phase: descent

Anomalies: aircraft-equipment-problem-critical|deviation-track-heading-all-types|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-other-unknown

Synopsis

CLRED DIRECT TO DOCAT FIX OFF THE BRADE ARR TO RDU; CAPT OF A B737-200 DISCOVERS FIX IS NOT IN THE DATABASE AND MUST BE PROGRAMMED. RESULTING DELAY IN ACTING ON CLRNC IS NOTED BY APCH CTLR.

Narrative

INBOUND TO RDU ON THE BRADE 5 ARR WE ACKNOWLEDGED A HAND-OFF FROM WASHINGTON CTR TO CONTACT RDU APCH. THIS WAS IN THE VICINITY OF BRADE INTXN. ON THE INITIAL CALL TO APCH; I REQUESTED THE ILS RWY 23R. APCH CTL DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE OUR REQUEST AND ASSIGNED OUR FLT THE ILS RWY 23L. AT SOME POINT AFTER PASSING BRADE INTXN; APCH CTL ISSUED A CLRNC TO PROCEED DIRECT TO DOCAT INTXN. THE WORD 'IMMEDIATELY' WAS NOT USED. THIS INTXN IS LOCATED ON THE ILS RWY 23 LOCALIZER COURSE; 12.1 DME FROM THE RDU VOR. I ENTERED THE WAYPOINT NAME INTO THE FMS AND EXECUTED. AN FMC MESSAGE APPEARED IN THE SCRATCH PAD INDICATING THAT THE WAYPOINT WAS NOT CONTAINED IN THE DATABASE. I THEN BEGAN LOOKING AT THE APCH PLATE TO DETERMINE IF I COULD ENTER THE WAYPOINT USING LAT/LON; PLACE BEARING/PLACE BEARING; OR PLACE BEARING/DISTANCE INFO. AS I WAS DOING THIS; THE FLYING PLT BEGAN A TURN IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF THE WAYPOINT. I ENTERED THE WAYPOINT USING THE RDU 048 DEG RADIAL AT 12.1 DME AND EXECUTED. THE FLYING PLT THEN ENGAGED LNAV. AS THE ACFT WAS EXECUTING THE TURN; THE APCH CTLR (I ASSUME THE SUPVR) CALLED US VERY AGITATED THAT WE HAD NOT BEGUN THE TURN AS SOON AS HE ISSUED THE CLRNC. THE NEXT FEW XMISSIONS BETWEEN US WERE RATHER INTENSE. I WANTED TO EXPLAIN THE REASON; HOWEVER; THAT WAS NOT THE TIME TO ARGUE THE POINT. WE THEN ACKNOWLEDGED A HAND-OFF TO THE FINAL CTLR WHO ASSIGNED RWY 23R FOR LNDG. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: 1) ONCE DISCOVERING THAT DOCAT WAS NOT CONTAINED IN THE DATABASE; NOT REQUESTING A RADAR VECTOR UNTIL INFO WAS OBTAINED. THIS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AN OPTION. I DO NOT RECALL THE VOLUME OF RADIO XMISSIONS OCCURRING AT THE TIME. 2) DOCAT INTXN NOT CONTAINED IN THE FMC DATABASE; THEREBY REQUIRING CREW TO RESEARCH AND MANUALLY ENTER WAYPOINT COORDINATES TO ACCOMPLISH TASK. THIS IS NOT AN UNCOMMON OCCURRENCE FOR OUR MIXED FLEET OF B737-200/300 ACFT CONDUCTING FAR 121 SUPPLEMENTAL OPS. ONE COMMERCIALLY SUPPLIED NAVIGATIONAL DATABASE IS CONSTRUCTED THAT MAY BE LOADED INTO ALL ACFT. THE SIZE OF THE DATABASE IS BASED ON THE FMC WITH THE SMALLEST MEMORY (IE 256K). OUR DATABASE COVERS A LARGE GEOGRAPHIC AREA AND CONTAINS LOW AND HIGH ALT AIRWAYS AND WAYPOINTS. THE AIRLINE THEN SELECTS SPECIFIC ARPTS AND APCH PROCS; BASED ON OPERATIONAL NEEDS THAT WILL BE CONTAINED IN THE DATABASE. THE NUMBER OF ARPTS IS LIMITED TO THE REMAINING AVAILABLE BITES AFTER GEOGRAPHIC AREA AIRWAYS ARE LOADED. SOME WAYPOINTS ASSOCIATED WITH APCH PROCS MAY NOT BE CONTAINED IN THE DATABASE IF THE ASSOCIATED APCH IS NOT IN THE DATABASE. THIS WAS THE CASE WITH THE ILS RWY 23L APCH AND DOCAT. THE CREW HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING THIS UNTIL THEY ATTEMPT TO ENTER THE WAYPOINT INTO THE FMC. ALTERNATE WAYS OF ENTERING WAYPOINT INFO FOR WAYPOINTS NOT CONTAINED IN THE DATABASE ARE NORMALLY LAT/LON; PLACE BEARING/PLACE BEARING; OR PLACE BEARING/DISTANCE. THE LATER WAS USED IN THIS EVENT. 3) CTLR ASSUMING THAT CLRNC COULD BE ACCOMPLISHED IMMEDIATELY. CTLRS SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT ALTHOUGH ACFT MAY BE FILED INDICATING FMC OR GPS CAPABILITY (IE: /E; /F; /G); IT MAY TAKE THE CREW TIME TO ENTER A WAYPOINT IF IT IS NOT CONTAINED IN THE FMC DATABASE. SUMMARY: ALTHOUGH THE CTLR INDICATED THAT WE WERE NOT COMPLYING WITH THE ATC CLRNC; I TOTALLY DISAGREE AND DO NOT FEEL THAT ANY FAR WAS VIOLATED DURING THE ABOVE EVENT. I HAVE BEEN FLYING FOR OVER THIRTY YRS AND HAVE NEVER HAD A CTLR IMPLY NON COMPLIANCE DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME REQUIRED TO ENTER A WAYPOINT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR ADVISED HE IS QUALIFIED ON MULTIPLE EQUIP TYPES OPERATED BY HIS EMPLOYER. SOME OF THE MORE RECENT EQUIP UTILIZES LATER FMCS IN WHICH GREATER MEMORY ALLOWS COMPLETE AIRWAYS DEFINITIONS. EARLIER ACFT; AS IN THIS CASE; HAVE MORE LIMITED DATA IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE. THE NEED TO MANUALLY ENTER WAYPOINTS NOT INCLUDED IN THE DATABASE IS DISTRACTING AND TIME CONSUMING. THE BRADE ARR STATES IN BOTH THE NARRATIVE AND GRAPHIC DISPLAYS THAT; 'THE USER SHOULD EXPECT 'RADAR VECTORS TO FINAL APCH COURSE.' HE WAS ANTICIPATING VECTORS AND HAD NOT ANTICIPATED THE NEED TO PROGRAM DOCAT. RPTR EMPHASIZED THE DESIRABILITY FOR ATC AND THE PLT IN SUCH AN EVENT TO COMMUNICATE THEIR NEEDS OPENLY; IE ADVISING ATC OF THE PROB AND REQUESTING RADAR VECTORS FOR THE APCH AND FOR SEPARATION.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

Loading the flight search…

Frequently asked questions

How do I search flights by aircraft type on FlightFinder?

Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.

Which aircraft types can I filter by?

We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.

Is FlightFinder free to use?

Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.

Where does the route data come from?

Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.