1988-03 · NASA ASRS report 84686
TKOF BELOW RVR MINIMUMS.
OUR AIRLINE OPERATES 106 ACR TYPE ACFT; ABOUT 64 OF THEM ARE STANDARDIZED; THE OTHERS VASTLY VARY IN AVIONIC EQUIP; FLT DIRECTORS AND COCKPIT SET UPS. WE WERE IN A COCKPIT IN WHICH WE WERE RELATIVELY UNFAMILIAR. THIS REQUIRED US TO LOOK AROUND FOR EQUIP SWITCHES AND DIVERTED OUR ATTN WHICH WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN A RELAXED AND PERCEPTIVE ENVIRONMENT. WE HAD VERY LITTLE EXPOSURE TO THE DIFFERENT COCKPIT. THESE DIFFERENCES HAVE FORCED THE COMPANY TO INCREASE OUR LNDG MINIMUMS WHEN FLYING WITH THIS PARTICULAR TYPE OF FLT DIRECTOR. THE WX WAS BLOWING SNOW WITH RAPIDLY LOWERING VIS. AS WE TAXIED TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 35L; THE TWR QUERIED US IN A MANNER IN WHICH HE WANTED AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. HE SAID THAT ANOTHER CARRIER WHICH WAS WAITING TO TKOF; HIS MINIMUMS WERE 1400 RVR; 'WHAT IS YOURS?' THIS GENERATED SOME CONFUSION BECAUSE I HAD NEVER HEARD OF TKOF MINIMUMS OF 1400 AND I WAS SURE WE HAD IDENTICAL MINIMUMS. BUT THE CAPT SAID 1600 RVR; SO THAT IS WHAT I RELAYED TO THE TWR. THE CAPT AND I DISCUSSED THAT WE WERE NOT RESTR FOR TKOF MINIMUMS DUE TO DIFFERENT FLT DIRECTOR. THAT ONLY APPLIED TO LNDG MINIMUMS. WE THOUGHT THAT SINCE WE WERE NOT RESTR WE COULD TKOF WITH MINIMUMS OF 600 RVR. WE MADE A CURSORY ASSUMPTION THAT THE 2 PARALLEL RWYS HAD IDENTICAL TKOF MINIMUMS. WE WERE SO RUSHED THAT I DID NOT DIFFERENTIATE THE MINIMUMS IN THE TKOF SECTION OF THE APCH CHARTS SINCE THE TWR WAS RPTING 1200 RVR WE THOUGHT THERE WAS NO PROB. THE CAPT SAID; 'TELL HIM OUR MINIMUMS ARE 600 RVR.' WHEN I DID THE TWR SAID; 'FLY HDG 010 DEGS; CLRED FOR TKOF.' THIS CLRNC ONLY REINFORCED OUR ERROR. I KNOW HE IS NOT REQUIRED TO ADVISE US; BUT DOESN'T HE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION? MY THINKING IS THAT EVERYONE CONCERNED SHOULD EXERCISE CHKS AND BALANCES WITH EACH OTHER WHEN IN THE AVIATION ENVIRONMENT. I AM NOT BLAMING THE CTLR; I AM JUST POINTING OUT THE DEFICIENCIES IN THE STATUS QUO. HE (ATC) SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THE PUBLISHED LOWEST MINIMUMS FOR RWY 35L WAS 1600 RVR. IF HE COULD HAVE POINTED IT OUT INSTEAD OF ASKING US WITH THE IMPLICATION THAT WE COULD TKOF WHILE ANOTHER CARRIER HAD TO WAIT; WE WOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN INTO THAT PITFALL. I MUST STRESS THAT THE TIME FACTOR HERE WAS VERY SHORT. THE INFLECTION OF THE CTLR'S VOICE DEMANDED AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. THIS FORCED US TO MAKE A DECISION ON THE MOMENT. WHEN I LOOKED AT THE MINIMUMS ON THE APCH CHARTS; I LOOKED SO FAST THAT I THOUGHT IT APPLIED TO BOTH RWY 35 PARALLELS. I WILL NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN. I HAVE VERY MUCH PRIDE IN KNOWING PROCS AND OPERATING AS SAFELY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. THE PROB IS WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET WE ARE HUMAN AND ARE CAPABLE OF MISTAKES. FROM NOW ON I WILL NEVER BE RUSHED AND WILL NOT HESITATE TO SAY 'STAND BY PLEASE.' SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 84864: THE PROB WAS DISCOVERED AFTER DEP WHEN I GOT THE BOOK OUT BECAUSE I HAD SOME DOUBTS.
Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.
Loading the flight search…
Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.
We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.
Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.
Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.