TRACON FLM providing a skill check described a loss of separation event when a second departure overtook a preceding aircraft; the reporter listing both a failed hear back error and confused 'climb via' procedure/s as causal factors.

2011-06 · NASA ASRS report 956532

Date: 2011-06 · Aircraft: Citation I (C500) · Phase: climb

Anomalies: atc-issue-all-types|conflict-airborne-conflict|deviation-altitude-overshoot|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-clearance|deviation-discrepancy-procedural-published-material-policy

Synopsis

TRACON FLM providing a skill check described a loss of separation event when a second departure overtook a preceding aircraft; the reporter listing both a failed hear back error and confused 'climb via' procedure/s as causal factors.

Narrative

I was the FLM performing a skill check on a developmental. We had just taken the position and had a few traffic situations that he had fallen behind on. Aircraft X; a Runway XX departure; was climbing on a vector/classic SID. Air Carrier Y was a [Runway] YYR departure that was on a RNAV SID. Both aircraft meet at a way point called ZZZZZ. Air Carrier Y was overtaking Aircraft X. Aircraft X was turned eastbound; climbed; and [then] stopped once we realized the overtake. Traffic was called to the trailing aircraft; Air Carrier Y; but he was already above Aircraft X and he couldn't see him. Loss of separation occurred. In addition; the trainee told Air Carrier Y to climb via the SID; which means to cross ZZZZZ below 7;000 FT. Air Carrier Y stated; 'Roger; cleared unrestricted to FL190.' Trainee did not catch the read back error; nor did I. We had a couple of difficult situations that we were dealing with at the time. Had Air Carrier Y stopped the climb at 7;000 FT; there would have been no loss of separation. I feel that these 'climb via' on the RNAV SIDs cause more confusion. Some aircraft are climbing to 7;000 FT only and some are climbing via the SID; this is confusing. If all aircraft came off climbing to the same altitude and let the Departure Controller climb them; traffic permitting; this [might] not have happened. Most of the pilots are extremely confused on these 'climb via' SIDs.

Source: NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (public domain). Reports are voluntary submissions and are not verified by NASA.

Loading the flight search…

Frequently asked questions

How do I search flights by aircraft type on FlightFinder?

Pick an aircraft model — Boeing 737, Airbus A320, A380, Boeing 787 Dreamliner and more — enter your origin airport, and FlightFinder shows every route that plane flies from there with live fares.

Which aircraft types can I filter by?

We support Boeing 737/747/757/767/777/787, the full Airbus A220/A319/A320/A321/A330/A340/A350/A380 family, Embraer E170/E175/E190/E195, Bombardier CRJ and Dash 8, and the ATR 42/72 turboprops.

Is FlightFinder free to use?

Search and schedules are free. Pro ($4.99/month, $39/year, or $99 one-time lifetime) unlocks the enriched flight card — on-time stats, CO₂ per passenger, amenities, live gate & weather — plus My Trips with push alerts.

Where does the route data come from?

Live schedules come from Amadeus, AeroDataBox and Travelpayouts. Observed routes (which aircraft actually flew a given city pair) are crowdsourced from adsb.lol ADS-B data under the Open Database License.